A tough season, playing angry, and messaging Michael Owen

The Football Interview is a new series in which the biggest names in sport and entertainment join host Kelly Somers for bold and in-depth conversations about the nation's favourite sport.

We'll explore mindset and motivation, and talk about defining moments, career highs and personal reflections. The Football Interview brings you the person behind the player.

Interviews will drop on weekends across BBC iPlayer, YouTube, BBC Sounds and the BBC Sport website. This week's interview will be broadcast on BBC One from 23:35 BST on Saturday, 11 April (and after Sportscene in Scotland) .

Ollie Watkins' journey to the top has been a circuitous one - from playing in the National League with Weston-super-Mare to scoring the winner in a European Championship semi-final almost a decade later, then competing in the Champions League with Aston Villa.

This season has been a mixed one for Watkins.

A tally of nine goals and just one assist from 30 Premier League appearances is below his usual rate, but having scored against West Ham before the international break, he then hit two against Bologna in the Europa League on Thursday.

That took him to 99 goals for Villa and prompted renewed talk of a late run into Thomas Tuchel's World Cup squad.

He talks to Kelly Somers about Villa, his international ambitions, and how talking to former England striker Michael Owen has helped him through what he describes as a "difficult" season.

Media caption,

'This year I haven't been at the level I wanted to' - Watkins on form this season

Kelly Somers: Well, Ollie, let's go back to the very beginning. I want to know where your love of football came from and the first time you can remember having a ball at your feet.

Ollie Watkins: Ah, it was a long time ago now!

Kelly: You were so young that you can't remember...

Ollie: Yeah, I was so young. My mum always used to say as soon as I could walk I was kicking bouncy balls and stuff around. Then whenever I used to go out to play in the street, I'd always come back with a football.

Kelly: What, you just nicked another kid's football?!

Ollie: I would just find footballs around and I'd have a collection of different ones. I was playing with my brothers in the street and stuff like that. One day my friend came around and he was going to football practice later, but I didn't have a team. He told me to come with him and then it started from there.

Kelly: So, that was your first team. What can you remember of your first session with them?

Ollie: It was just different. I was used to playing football down at the park with my friends. This is a little bit more... it was still fun, but obviously you have a little bit of coaching and stuff like that. And then I found that I was quite good at it, so just kept going.

Kelly: At what point did you realise, 'OK, I've maybe got something here that the other kids haven't got'?

Ollie: Well, to be honest, there was a player that played in my team... his dad actually ran the team as well... he was the best player. And I always just wanted to kind of get close to him and just be like him really.

At that age, I don't think you think about it. You're just playing football. It's maybe when you get into academies and stuff like that then you start to think about doing it more seriously and thinking of the level you're at. But at that time - I think that's the fun thing about when you're young - you just go out and play. There's no rules. You can run everywhere. I think that's the fun bit about football at that age.

Kelly: There's been a lot made of your journey and it not being your typical route. It was Exeter that picked you up first, wasn't it? But that wasn't the easiest path straight away was it, either?

Ollie: No, I went for a trial when I was nine. I didn't get in and then they told me to come back in six weeks, but I couldn't concentrate. I was always looking around and stuff like that, so coming back six weeks later, I didn't feel like I was going to improve. I needed to go back and, you know, play with my friends and just enjoy it because at that age it is very serious.

Kelly: So, you didn't go back six weeks later? You decided not to?

Ollie: No, I went back two years later. I got in the academy and then, yeah, I was there until I left at 21 I think.

Kelly: I know it's a long time ago now, but at nine years old that must have been your dream to play for your local team. To be told, 'no, sorry, this isn't right for you at the moment' ... can you remember how that felt? Or were you able to just go and enjoy football again?

Ollie: They weren't saying: 'Oh no, you aren't good enough.' It was more the fact that I couldn't focus. Well, that's what they told me anyway. But I just kind of saw it as… I just went and played more football and just enjoyed it. And I think I kind of saw it as a little bit of a blessing. At that age, you just want to go out and play, have that freedom to express yourself. So, that's what I went away and did. When I then went into it, I was ready to focus more.

Kelly: And when you were at Exeter as well, you went on some loan spells. I know Weston-super-Mare was quite a big one, wasn't it?

Ollie: Yeah, I feel like that was crucial in my development. One of my best friends at the time, Matt Jay, he made his debut at 16 I think. Obviously, I was very happy for him. He was my best friend, but I was so envious because you want that to be you.

But me going out on loan definitely helped me, because I felt like I was then… I'd experienced playing men's football. I just learned to fight for three points. People had mortgages to pay and stuff like that and I didn't understand that because I'd just been playing reserve-team football and playing games where I could win 5-0 or lose 5-0, it didn't matter. Going out and playing for three points was a real learning curve for me and it definitely helped me. I learned a lot that year.

Kelly: You did, of course, make it at Exeter and then the rest is history because that's where the rest of your journey started. But has there been a turning point along the way, where if you look back, you think, 'OK, all of this... I wouldn't be an England international scoring that goal at Euro 2024, playing in the Champions League... none of this would have happened without it'?

Ollie: I think there's an element of luck. I remember the day I got into the first team at Exeter. Ryan Harley - one of the main midfielders - was ill that day. I ended up playing, scoring and then I stayed in the team and did well.

But after that, I think just working hard. And when I made the jump to Brentford, I was a little bit surprised at how well I took to it.

Kelly: Really?

Ollie: Yeah, I think because when you're younger, you look at players that you want to play against... you search them on YouTube and then the next thing you know, football changes so quickly, you can be playing with those players that you had once watched or aspired to be like. I think just working hard and timing - everything just kind of falls into place naturally, I think.

Kelly: Is it quite hard to believe in that at times, though, because you kind of... you can control so much, but you can't control your luck? Or can you, do you think?

Ollie: Yeah, I think it's still something I'm coming to terms with. You can do all you can throughout the week and prepare as best as you can for a game, but sometimes things are out of your control. There are times where, you know, it's lonely. You can't take your mates everywhere with you and your family and the people closest to you.

You've got to work hard and do it yourself and persevere at the end of the day, and if you keep working hard it will pay off.

Kelly: What's been the toughest moment?

Ollie: The toughest moment for me has probably been... throughout all my career... I would probably say this season. Just because I've done so well to get to where I am - getting to the Premier League... we had a bit of a dip... I scored goals. And then you set that expectation of... I think I hit a new level, scoring goals and being in Europe as well. That goal... after the Euros, I think there's more eyes on you then.

This year, I haven't been at the level I wanted to. So, to learn to deal with that is hard. And, look, it can always change. Football can always change. It will be a game where you can go out, score three goals and then everyone talks about you, like: 'Ah, he's back in form.'

I think that change of not being at the level where you want to be... I think for me this year has been difficult. But I've always got faith in my ability and I work so hard that I know I can get back to the level that I've achieved in previous seasons.

Kelly: How have you dealt with it?

Ollie: Yeah, it's been hard. I've got a lot of good people around me. I've spoken to a lot of players. I speak to Michael Owen quite a bit.

Kelly: Do you?

Ollie: Yeah, just because sometimes they know how… it's easy to speak to your friends and stuff when they come and watch you, but they've got a biased opinion. Someone like Michael Owen, who has played the game... he's hit levels that I've not achieved... he can know how I'm thinking and just see from afar and give you some advice on what to do. I think it's always nice to be in my position and be able to reach out to these people.

Kelly: Is that like a regular check-in? How did that start?

Ollie: No, not a regular check-in. I was actually going through my followers on Instagram. It just said, 'Michael Owen - follow back', so I followed him back and then I messaged him and we just had a chat. And he was just saying he just feels like when I play angry and I'm being a nuisance, that's when I'm at my best. So I just try and bring that to the table as much as possible.

Kelly: How easy is it to just play angry and be a nuisance?

Ollie: I feel like sometimes I'm too nice! My dad would always say it to me when I was younger. When I was playing, he'd be like, 'you need to like, play angry' and stuff, but I couldn't just do it. There'll be days where I wake up and you have that feeling, but I'm just a nice, honest player.

Kelly: How's Unai Emery helped you through this? Because he's guided you to some of the best form that you've had. What's he been like for you this season as well?

Ollie: For me, he's unbelievable. He's seen me when I'm obviously at my best, at my worst, but I've had all my best moments under this manager and I think some of the best moments of the club have come through me... you know, some of my moments.

He has a lot of faith in me and I think that's why there will be times when I haven't scored any goals and he'll keep picking me because he believes in me. I think he knows that, even if I'm not bringing goals to the table, I'll always work hard for the team and do my job. And he can rely on me. Yeah, he's got a lot of faith in me and, like I said, I feel like I've gone up another level since he's come in.

Kelly: I also read in another interview you said you've worked with a sports therapist, in terms of for your mind and the mental side of the game in recent years. How's that helped? And I believe you actually did that before this season, didn't you? Is that something that's been important for a few years?

Ollie: Yeah, I've done it for a few years now. I think it's just good to… like I said, you have your friends and family that are close to you, but they're always going to have a biased opinion and sometimes sugar-coat things and tell you what you want to hear.

I think when it's someone outside of your close circle, it's nice to get another opinion. Not just about football - all-round day-to-day life. If you need opinion on things or some advice, someone to open up to and get things off your chest...

Kelly: Is that like a regular part of your routine then, along with training?

Ollie: Yeah, I try to. Sometimes it feels like a little bit of a chore but I feel like it's definitely needed. I keep things bottled up quite a lot, so having that is something that is beneficial for me and has definitely helped me.

Kelly: Let's not just focus on the tough moments because before this season, it had - as you said - kind of been an ascent like that. If there was one match you could go back and relive, what would it be?

Ollie: Well, for Villa, I probably would have said the 7-2 game [victory over Liverpool in October 2020] just because it was a complete shock. I wish there was a full Villa Park, though. But, obviously the Euros goal. Yeah, that was an amazing moment. I wish I'd celebrated a little bit differently.

Kelly: Why?

Ollie: I said I was going to do it, but you know when you say something, but you don't truly believe it's going to happen? And then I kind of celebrated as if I was like a fan, in shock, that's just scored their first goal.

Kelly: I think that's what people really loved about it though.

Ollie: Yeah, I do think people like that element of it. I don't know... I think I should have owned it a little bit more. Just stood in the middle of the pitch, like, you know when Eric Cantona used to score?

Kelly: Yeah.

Ollie: Yeah, with his collar up. Just do something like that.

Kelly: It was an amazing moment, wasn't it?

Ollie: It was. After that, I think a lot of people noticed me a lot more, just through that goal. They may be like Wolves fans and they'll say to me: 'Ah, that was an amazing moment. You've given me the best moment I've had in football.' And that's an amazing feeling, you know, because I've been there in the beer gardens, watching England before and when someone scores... that togetherness that it brings is nice. So to know that I've done that to a lot of people is a nice feeling.

Image caption,

Watkins wheels away to celebrate his winning goal against the Netherlands at Euro 2024

Kelly: There's another tournament that you can do it in this summer, isn't there? You can just remind people of what you can do again.

Ollie: We've got a massive tournament in the summer. I'm doing all I can to get there, score some goals before the end of the season, and hopefully be in that World Cup squad.

Kelly: OK, let's try to get to know Ollie away from the pitch a little bit.What were you like growing up, other than being football obsessed? What was a young Ollie like?

Ollie: Very energetic. Probably a wind-up merchant.

Kelly: Are you still like that now?

Ollie: Not really. I feel like I'm a bit different away from football with my friends. Here, I'm very focused, professional. When there's time for a laugh and a joke I do, but I'm not really a wind-up like I was back then, I think.

Kelly: What's your ideal day off then? How do you like to escape?

Ollie: There's two separate days. There's one, like a nice little spa day...

Kelly: Where are the kids? No, I'm joking!

Ollie: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. A nice little spa day and then there's another day where I'm just taking the kids out and having like a nice lunch with them. They're running round in a soft play, just getting to spend quality time with them.

Kelly: You've got two kids?

Ollie: Two kids.

Kelly: What are you like as a dad?

Ollie: I like to think I'm a good dad. I like to think I'm very present. One thing I've learned to do is just not really be on my phone a lot around them because they grow up so quickly and they've got such good memories and I don't want them to remember me for not listening and being on my phone and just sat there looking at social media and not anything useful over playing with them and putting time in and nurturing them. I like to think I'm present. I like to think I'm fun and just being there to love and care for them.

Kelly: And one thing that people get wrong about you the most...

Ollie: My age. They think I'm a lot younger –

Kelly: Do you want to clear it up now?! How old are you?

Ollie: I'm 30, yeah. I think people will be like: 'Aw, he's 30!' Hopefully people keep saying, 'ah, the young, up-and-coming talent' and I get a new five-year deal or something like that! That's what I think they say about me, yeah.... they think I'm younger than I am.

Kelly: Best piece of advice you've ever been given?

Ollie: Talk to yourself as if you were someone you love, because obviously the negative self-talk can get to you and stuff, but you wouldn't talk like that to your kid or your friends or family.

Kelly: Aside from your children and your family, what are you proudest of?

Ollie: Proudest of just what I've achieved in life. To be in my position - to be playing week-in, week-out in the Premier League, to have a beautiful family.

Kelly: There was probably a time when you were playing in non-league that you didn't think that half of this...

Ollie: No, I definitely didn't think it was going to be achievable. I think my aim was to get into the Championship because I remember one of the boys said to me: 'Ah, I think you can play in the Champ.' So, that was like my aim. To be here where I am today, I'm very grateful and need to appreciate it more.

Kelly: What is the one thing that you still would love to achieve?

Ollie: I think Europa League is something that we can definitely achieve.

Kelly: Short-term, yeah?

Ollie: Short-term. World Cup would be special, wouldn't it? So, yeah, there are a few things that I want to do.

Kelly: Ollie, thank you for your time.

Ollie: Thank you.